Brian McEnery is the global President of the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA). Brian graduated with ACCA in 1993, becoming a member in 1998 and a Fellow in 2003. He was elected to the ACCA Council in 2006 and has since been active on a number of ACCA's standing committees. Brian is a Partner with BDO Ireland, first joining the firm in 1995 and becoming a Partner in 2002. Currently, Brian is also a non-executive director of Ireland's National Asset Management Agency and the non-executive Chairman of Ireland's health and social care regulator.

BR Research recently sat down with Brian in Islamabad and discussed with him the future of ACCA in Pakistan's economy and the role ACCA Global can play in that regard. Selected, edited excerpts are provided below:

BR Research: What brings you to Pakistan?

Brian McEnery: I am here as the President of ACCA. We have members and students in 180 countries. But one of our priority markets is Pakistan. ACCA has been in Pakistan since 1997. This is my second time in Islamabad, but this is my first time in cities like Lahore and Karachi. During my stay here so far, I have met with officials at the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP), the Auditor General's office, the Institute of Chartered Accountants, Pakistan (ICAP), Institute of Cost and Management Accountants of Pakistan (ICMA Pakistan), leadership of businesses and many of our ACCA members, and other stakeholders, many of whom are collaborators and supporters of ACCA in Pakistan.

BRR: What is the professional footprint of ACCA in Pakistan?

BM: ACCA has been here for twenty years now. We have been comparatively well-received in Pakistan from many parts of the government for a considerable period of time. That's been evident on both of my trips here. We have about ten and a half thousand members and affiliates in Pakistan. Affiliates are those who have finished the exams but haven't yet got the relevant experience (which is three years) to call themselves a member. We currently have approximately 35,000 students in Pakistan.

We are a significant stakeholder in the economy and society of Pakistan and we strive to uphold public trust in the accounting profession and support the ongoing economic growth. In fact, Pakistan is a very important market for ACCA both for business and societal reasons. We believe there is a lot of potential in this market for ACCA, and also for growth of ACCA to become an ever stronger global body. Then, on the other end, we feel the need for strengthening of the accounting profession in Pakistan. ACCA's mantra has remained the same since 1904: it's an open, accessible, and flexible qualification. It is aimed at people of ability rather than privilege.

BRR: Following your meetings and observations, what is your reading on the future of professional accountancy in Pakistan?

BM: I will align the future of this profession with the future of the economy of Pakistan. Pakistani economy has very strong prospects. The improvement in business confidence is actually very palpable. Part of that hope and confidence is because not only Pakistan is amazingly well located, but it also has very strong demographics if they are used well. And I think there is a desire to avail the opportunities, whether it's the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, One-Belt, One-Road, and other initiatives such as shared services. Improvements in power infrastructure and road networks will give international investors the confidence in coming to Pakistan. There have already been significant improvements in the last two years, and more improvements are planned.

With a better economy, Pakistan is going to need more and more professional accountants. A research done earlier in 2015 had concluded that forty thousand accountants would be needed in Pakistan by 2020. I suspect the number would be an awful lot higher. Ireland has a population of five million people and it has forty thousand accountants. Pakistan is home to 200 million people but there are twenty thousand accountants only.

BRR: But surely, cannot compare Ireland with Pakistan, with the former being a financial center and a developed economy in the EU.

BM: But that is exactly what we should be trying: the goal should be that Pakistan becomes a center for professional service in the region. If you have that, it is inevitable that the accounting profession is going to need an increased number of professionals. For that reason, Pakistan has to be one of the most exciting countries in all the counties that we operate in.

We believe there is a real shortage of finance professionals to drive an economy the size of Pakistan's. If the future growth is indeed going to be above 5 percent, and perhaps, as I heard, 10 percent during CPEC years, then you're going to need qualified human resource. Otherwise it will become a limiting factor.

BRR: Speaking of growing the number of accountancy professionals, how does ACCA balance this apparent tension between growing its membership and preserving qualification standards?

BM: We want to grow our membership but we don't want to damage our association. We take the reputation of the association very seriously. In terms of academic rigor, ACCA has terribly difficult exams and it is considered a level of achievement to pass ACCA exams. We have a whole series of independent regulations surrounding our examination boards. And it is external. We have to ensure that the qualification remains relevant, that the qualification process has rigor, and that it is independently benchmarked.

BRR: You referred to academic rigor. What is ACCA's pass rate like?

BM: ACCA is transparent in its pass percentage, which is set at 50 percent. The number of people passing an exam versus the number of people sitting for the exam is generally known as pass rate. It varies from exam to exam and can go from as low as the mid twenties for some exams to thirty five or thirty seven percent for other exams. These exams are competitive and generally the rigor is higher than comparable academic qualifications. Most accounting bodies have pass rates of 30 percent, give or take a few percentage points. In Pakistan, our pass rates are at par or higher compared with other accounting bodies.

BRR: Passing the exam is great. But a criticism often leveled on professional accountancy qualifications is that limited or no exposure to a university environment results in accountancy students struggling to develop interpersonal skills, which might come in professionally handy. Do you agree with that?

BM: I don't necessarily agree or disagree with that impression. I was a full-time ACCA student; I didn't go to a university; but it wasn't any less experiential for me. But people differ, and there has to be flexibility in academic training. On one hand, some people prefer a university environment. But on the other hand, it will be restrictive to have this requirement that one has to be a university graduate before they can pursue an accounting qualification. How do we balance that?

We work with universities around the world. We go in and we map their business qualifications with the ACCA syllabus, line by line. After mapping, we go in and tell them that we can award the following exemptions as against the ACCA qualification. We ensure quality-control in that relationship with the university in the future. If we are satisfied, we may give exemptions of up to the full foundations in the fundamental papers, and the students only have to sit in the professional exam papers. So there is a route built into the ACCA system to accommodate the university environment.

BRR: On that issue, how is the situation like in Pakistan? A large number of students enroll for ACCA directly after their intermediate/A-level exams.

BM: For the last two years, we have segmented our students in Pakistan. As a result, there is more focus on leadership, entrepreneurship, presentation skills and emotional intelligence training for students who start ACCA directly after their intermediate/A-Levels. We have also engaged with the Aman Foundation (INJAZ Pakistan) for training in areas like resume building, time management and conflict management. These are the top-ups that we are providing in Pakistan and now the overall qualification has been enhanced to cover important topics which will improve the work-readiness and employability skills of ACCAs.

BRR: That's good. Let's talk a little bit about leadership now. Have you conducted a study as to how many among the Pakistani ACCAs have reached the top?

BM: We have a long list of ACCA members who are sitting on top corporate positions in Pakistan, including CEOs at the banks; partners at large and medium practices; and independent directors on corporate boards. Our ACCA members in Pakistan are in fact rising to the top at a young age, because we have been in Pakistan for only 20 years. The influence we are going to have in Pakistan in the future is going to be significant. The level of seniority of our members in Pakistan is as good as any country that I have been into. And that level of seniority is only going to grow.

BRR: With a growing number of accountancy professionals at senior levels, do you think Pakistan is at that stage where an independent body (on the lines of the UK and Ireland's Financial Reporting Council) could be established to provide oversight, discipline and forward guidance to the accountancy profession in the country?

BM: The more collaboration there is, the better it will be. Senior executives need to have a platform to give recommendations to the government. There is an Audit Oversight Board in Pakistan. ACCA actively believes in and encourages that level of oversight of regulation of the profession should be in line with global standards.

BRR: Every profession has elements both good and bad. Pakistan has a huge problem of tax evasion. While accountants haven't necessarily caused that problem, some of them, wittingly or unwittingly, reinforce or enable that practice. Does ACCA Global have regulations in place to punish its unscrupulous members?

BM: We have a defined set of rules, which cover all aspects of what a member can and cannot do. We have principles of independence, ethics, objectivity, and public value. If any of our members is involved in misconduct around ethics, for instance, we have disciplinary procedures through our licensing and regulatory department. I can tell you they do sanction members, including up to expulsion of the member, and the publication of that fact that that member is no longer a member of the ACCA.

It happens, unfortunately, because among 190,000 members, you will find some who don't do things necessarily the way we would want them to do. I have personally been associated with the removal of a member. We have to have the deterrent. We need to have that to preserve our credibility.

BRR: What are some of the weaknesses in your charter?

BM: Well, I believe our strength is potentially seized upon by others, and it is something we are cognizant of as being a weakness. We are the largest international accounting body. And that is clearly a big strength. The downside of being a large international accounting body is that, what we are not, is a national accounting body in a 180 countries. As a consequence, part of what we see as being leveled against ACCA is that 'you're not ICAP'. And we are not ICAP. We are not the national accounting body of 180 countries. But we are the international body in all the 180 countries working alongside the national bodies of 180 countries.

And so, therefore, I would say, couldn't that potentially be leveled against ACCA, and particularly these days when things may be a little bit more nationalistic than they would have been? And that's something that we live with. And that is why it is important for us to partner with national accounting bodies.

BRR: There was a situation with the ICAP a few years ago. Though the controversial directive limiting other professional bodies' students from training at ICAP-member organisations no longer stands, how has been its impact on ACCA enrollments in Pakistan in recent years?

BM: There was a bit of confusion back then due to the legal back and forth. But general public wasn't well informed on what was going on. Today, while ICAP can have the preference for its students for training, students from all accounting bodies have the right for training. Since 2014 onwards, we have more students and members put together in public practice than even the ICAP. We are enrolling between six to eight thousand new students every year. And it has been a growth trajectory in recent years.

There was a challenge in 2012 and 2013 for all professional accounting bodies working in Pakistan. Students and parents are now more aware of professional accounting as a career option - although still three million people join degree programmes every year compared to fifteen thousand to seventeen thousand joining professional accounting. That number is way low to fulfill the need of Pakistan.

BRR: You earlier spoke about collaborating with national accounting bodies across the world. Do you see some kind of collaboration with ICAP in the future?

BM: Even though ACCA is the largest global accountancy body and we have the network, we have worked closer and closer with national bodies in a number of countries, including with ICAP in Pakistan. We have an ambition to work with national bodies because it is in both our interests.

We believe it is important for ACCA and ICAP and other bodies to be not really focused on internal matters, but external matters. There is a dearth of professionals in the accounting profession in Pakistan. As a result, a lot of organizations end up hiring non-qualified staff, which is a risk for the organizations and economy in general.

It is incumbent on all the accounting bodies to work tirelessly together. We have resonance with ICAP and ICMA Pakistan on that.