An interview with Ambassador Sha Zukang President of China-Pakistan Friendship Association

China's 'miracle maker', Ambassador Sha Zukang wears many hats. Earlier this month he brought a big delegation of Chinese private sector businessmen to Pakistan in the capacity of President of China-Pakistan Friendship Association (CPFA) in China. Sha, who is the former head of United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs (2007 to 2012), and the former Chinese ambassador to the United Nations Office in Geneva, also currently holds the position of honorary president of China Arms Control and Disarmament Association, and as Senior Advisor to the prestigious China Institute for International Strategic Studies.

In this short 25-minute interview, the career diplomat offers little meat - partly to ensure politically correctness and partly because Sha is not a numbers man. But he minces no words on the need to have security in Pakistan, and how crucial is CPEC for China's long term growth and development. Below are edited transcripts.

<B>BR Research: Is China concerned about the transparency row over CPEC within Pakistan? What is your view on it?</B>

<B>Sha Zukang:</B> I do not wish to interfere and engage in Pakistan's internal affairs. It's not fair for any non-Pakistani to comment on this issue. But that said, as far as China is concerned we never thought of this issue, because transparency is not an issue for China and it shouldn't be an issue for Pakistan. That's my personal view.

CPEC is like a beautiful painting, which we will draw on the ground and for everybody to see - all the people of Pakistan and all the people across the world. So it's absolutely transparent.

<B>BRR: Does China prefer the western route or the eastern route?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> This is the decision of Pakistani people. As the president of CPFA, as long as I am sure the CPEC serves the interest of the people then it's up to the people of Pakistan to choose the route. And China is always ready to accommodate the interest of the people.

<B>BRR: You told a local newspaper that provincial differences on CPEC are good because it is leading to more discussions. In Pakistan, provincial differences have caused project delays for decades - such as the Kala Bagh Dam. So it is good that China doesn't want to interfere but shouldn't China be at least worried about these inter-provincial differences and controversies surrounding it?</B>

<B>SZ:</B>Inter provincial conflicts and competition is not unique to Pakistan; it exists in China and it exists elsewhere in the world. It is a very common phenomenon for all countries. But the matter could be resolved through consultations and negotiations. No matter how rich any country or province becomes, I have never heard them saying we have enough money. Therefore, the government need to choose its priorities.

<B>BRR: How important is CPEC for China, and whether you are ready for it?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> CPEC is the first project under the umbrella of China's One Belt, One Road (OBOR) strategy. I don't think we have the experience in building this kind of a road and a belt project. We are still exploring our options. But surely CPEC is China's flagship project under OBOR; it's the pace setter. That is to say that through the construction of CPEC, we will be able to process and accumulate our experiences, and learn lessons from it as well. So it's a process and we are at the beginning of it. I can understand if I wear the cap of those people demanding transparency, and I can understand their concerns. But at the same time, I think people need a little bit of patience.

<B>BRR: There has been some news in the Western press that the Chinese bureaucracy has not been able to do the spadework for OBOR, because it is still trying to deal with China's economic slowdown?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> I never expect Western media to say anything nice about China. If they say something nice then I have doubts that something must be wrong on our part. I wish them to be objective and fair, but it is perhaps expecting too much. And how can you say that Chinese economy is not doing well. We are doing extremely well; much better than anyone else.

<B>BRR: Well isn't the 'new normal' a euphemistic term for slowing down?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> We chose to do that because we have reached that point where we have to improve the quality of our development instead of our quantity. So while we should maintain a certain speed of high rate of development, our more attention should be paid to the quality of development. Our focus is now sustainability.

<B>BRR: Can we expect Chinese government to periodically release some kind of progress report on CPEC?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> I believe both the Chinese and Pakistani sides are reviewing the progress every day. But as I said earlier, CPEC is a beautiful painting written on the territory of Pakistan; it's for everybody to see.

<B>BRR:</B> What is the exact amount of megawatts to be added under CPEC? Some reports suggest it's 10500 MW; others put the number at 17000. What is the real number?

<B>SZ:</B> Energy is a priority for Pakistan, but I cannot give you a number because I am poor with figures.

<B>BRR: Of the $36 billion under power sector for CPEC: how much is for upgrading and laying transmission of power lines, because $36 billion alone for power production does not justify the costs?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> I am not aware of the details but as a non-expert I would say that without transmission there is no point generating power.

<B>BRR: Pakistan's Ministry of Commerce recently invited Iran to join the CPEC route. Also China recently showed interest in building a rail line between Iran and China. Is China as interested about Iran and Afghanistan joining the corridor as it is about CPEC?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> They are most welcome. A successful implementation of CPEC will greatly facilitate development co-operation between Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan and China. CPEC is an important and central kind of project due to strategic geographical position of Pakistan. And it is through Pakistan that the economic development will radiate to other countries in South and Central Asia.
If we could speed up and do a good job with the CPEC, it will help speed up the construction of other part of Silk Road. That's why China attaches great importance to CPEC. Of course there are other reasons as China-Pakistan relations are the best and we trust each other. There is no political barrier between the two - and for that reason we are confident over the successful completion of CPEC.

We have the capacity, we have the technology, we have the finance and these are things exactly needed by our friend Pakistan.

<B>BRR: You stressed upon the need for security in your speech at Pakistan Stock Exchange? How do you see Pakistan's security position in general and in particular, as far as CPEC's projects are concerned?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> Security is a concern of all countries. It has become a global concern. I believe Pakistan and China should work together to address this issue. China highly appreciates the contributions Pakistan has made, particularly the sacrifices the country and its citizens have made. We sympathise with the people of Pakistan. People in our part of the world have to appreciate the sacrifices made by Pakistani government and its people, instead of pointing fingers.

<B>BRR: You say China is willing to work together to help Pakistan address its security concerns. How do you envision it; does it mean you wish to send Chinese forces to protect Chinese workers, or financial aid or tactical or equipment assistance to Pakistani army?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> We have confidence that Pakistan can protect Chinese workers in Pakistan. Unless Pakistani people make the request for direct Chinese military assistance then that's another matter. But we are willing to give comprehensive co-operation to Pakistan. Whenever there is any kind of assistance that Pakistan needs, Chinese government and its people are ready. And I am convinced vice versa.

<B>BRR: What kind of industries can we expect to form in Xinxiang province and other near-by provinces in China's west-most regions?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> If you open the map of China, it would be easier to see that geographically, Xinxiang is bordering Pakistan. But at the same time Xinxiang is bordering five or six Central Asian countries. Therefore, among the priority, it is to build a road connection and infrastructure. That part of the world is in serious need of highways and railways. We have a saying in China: if you want to be rich, build a road first. Xinxiang and nearby regions are very rich in natural resources, such as oil, gas, coal. But they are very difficult to transport out, that's why the road connection is number one priority.

Pakistan and China have to co-ordinate our development programme; we need to know what you need and what China can give. Co-ordination of development strategy and plan is necessary; unless we are on one page, nothing can happen.

<B>BRR: Tell us about your association. What are some of its milestones achieved and future plans?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> This association was established in 1956; this year is the sixtieth anniversary. As the name suggests, our mission is to further enhance our friendship through co-operation in all fields like education, science technology, art, trade - in all fields. Since I assumed the presidency last year, we have started making an annual plan.

<B>BRR: Wait a minute, China is a country that makes 50 and 10-year plans; at the least it makes 5-year plans. And yet this association, which is to assist a long way in CPEC, only has a one year plan?</B>

<B>SZ:</B> It's a very good idea. I assumed presidency only last year, I have been trying to prepare at least an annual plan. My current trip to lead the delegation of Chinese private sector businessmen is one of those plans in action.