An interview with Atif Azim, CEO VentureDive

Atif Azim is the co-founder and CEO of VentureDive, a technology company that developed the platform for Careem. Atif is a graduate of Imperial College of Science and Technology, London and Stanford University, USA.

BR Research had a quick chat with Atif to better understand Pakistan’s IT sector and its potential for growth. Below are the edited extracts:

BR Research: What is VentureDive?

Atif Azim: VentureDive is a technology solutions consultancy. We act as thought partners and work with clients, which can be as large as Fortune-500 companies or small start-ups. Our goal is to make products and solutions that can make a global impact.

We started as a fund to invest in technology based product ideas and teams from the country. We realised that the calibre of ideas being proposed was not really awe-inspiring so we decided to develop our own technology products. This was mid- 2012, and around this time Careem was also starting up. We were working off Tariq Road at that time in a small conference room with four software developers, and that is where the first few lines of code for Careem were written.

Careem’s technology platform, end to end, was developed by VentureDive. Two years back, they acquired our team and now the team members are working for Careem either in Dubai or Karachi. VentureDive also took equity in Careem’s shareholdings.

BRR: What other big projects have you undertaken?

AA: IslamicFinder is ours another big platform, developed in conjunction with a Saudi group. It is one of the top Islamic portals globally with millions of unique visitors every month. It connects Muslims across the world and is predominantly used in the Americas and Europe where they are looking for services in the Muslim community, nearest mosques, prayer times etc. It has been so successful that Google Singapore invited us for a panel discussion as one of the most highly downloaded and trafficked products in the region.

BRR: Let’s talk about the macros of Pakistan’s technology sphere. How big is the market?

AA: As you know, this year was the first year that IT services exports crossed a billion-dollar mark. Personally, I think it’s more than that as people have different ways of reporting incomes.

Though there are probably a number of software development houses, it’s actually underwhelming how small the biggest ones are in terms of revenue and growth. It’s sad that we don’t have a Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) or an Infosys in Pakistan. I saw a statistic recently that TCS’s valuation was more than all of PSX combined. That is the difference in scale between Pakistan and India.

BRR: How can Pakistan have IT companies of that scale?

AA: We really need to improve the skill set of the people from an ecosystem level. If you look at tech hubs around the world, it’s a troika between universities, financiers, and industries.

Raw talent here is very good, comparable to the best in the world. We have online tests that allow our recruits to measure themselves against peers globally, and we have had people score in the top 2 percentiles. The mid-level to senior-level strata is where we run into issues. This is because of multiple reasons. One is that some of them go abroad.

The other is that the talent tends to pick up bad habits. Let me explain. A lot of the work done domestically is outsourced to people here. Outsourcing by definition means that the work is not critical so most of the tasks are not interesting, and more importantly, you don’t need to worry about high performing systems.

Developers need to understand that if they write one line of sub-optimal code, it will impact the performance either through unnecessary CPU utilisation and or database queries. If it is not optimal, it will start slowing the system down. If, for example, Careem slows down then you will have angry customers switching over to the competitor. Designing codes for high performance systems is like riding a bike, it cannot be taught, and it has to be learnt by living through a software lifecycle development. And people over here have limited opportunities to do so.

India has an advantage in having the right eco-system. They have development offices with the likes of Google, Amazon and Microsoft there with people who have lived through software development lifecycles. Here in Pakistan we are still at the cusp.

BRR: What about the regulatory environment and government support? Do you find it supportive or lacking?

AA: Some things the government has done really well such as zero rated taxes for exports. It would be good if they could help facilitate that internally as well. It is harder to do local business than international business.

The government can also help improve accessibility both ways: for customers to come to us and for us to visit our customers. It is not easy to run an export-based business if it takes 3 to 4 weeks to just get a visa. Similarly, it is astonishingly hard to get a visa for Pakistan.

Another area is software parks. The IT Ministry has built one in Lahore, and others are in the works for Islamabad and Karachi each. It would allow companies like VentureDive to have a consolidated campus rather than be spread over different floors in a building on Tariq Road, which is not the most impressive place to invite international customers to.

Last, but not least, the government should massively invest in R&D in technology to improve the economy, now and in the future.

BRR: Can you give us examples of such technology?

AA: We should focus on areas where disruption can help improve our native industries such as agri-tech. There are two aspects to it: improving production and improving supplier logistics. We can improve production through for example sensors and intelligence that determine water distributions, weather patterns and what is the right time to sow. Then there are platforms as to how to do easy payments between farmers and the suppliers or how to get a tractor on demand.

Some sectors that VentureDive is working for include fintech and health-tech. Both these industries need new innovative technology approaches to solve our local indigenous needs.

BRR: Since you are export based, how much has the devaluation impacted you?

AA: IT services do compete on price point since we are competing globally. A customer in US will be reaching out to companies in India, Latin America, Pakistan, where ever. So if we are more cost effective, its works in our favour.

BRR: How can Pakistani firms compete internationally?

AA: We need to stop under selling ourselves. Our English and communication skills are better than those of people in other regions. We have raw technology talent comparable to the world. When our team meets customers, they are generally pleasantly surprised that we, as Pakistanis, are able to surpass their expectations.

This brings me back to my earlier point. If we could have more accessibility, we could change the picture that other countries have of Pakistan. Yes, there are areas where we need to catch up, and for that we need more international tech companies, like Facebook or Google, to have development centres in Pakistan. But even without them operating here, there are opportunities, it is just that potential customers and visitors need to feel safe.

BRR: How big can the IT services sector grow?

AA: I think the next milestone should be $10 billion and we should reach that mark in the next 5 years. Something like 10 years would be too slow because everyone else would have gone much further ahead.