‘Make inequality part of election manifestos’

Interview with the Country Director, Oxfam Pakistan

Mohammed Qazilbash has a long leadership experience in the humanitarian world. He joined Oxfam Pakistan as its Country Director in 2016. Previously, Mr. Qazilbash has served in Mercy Corps as its country director in South Sudan (2014-15), Syria (2013-14) and Yemen (2011-12). Prior to that, he served as country director, China, for Save the Children UK (2011). BR Research recently sat down with him in Islamabad and discussed issues related to inequality and public service delivery. Selected excerpts follow:

BR Research: First up, please take us briefly through Oxfam’s work in Pakistan.

Mohammed Qazilbash: Oxfam is present in over 90 countries around the world. In Pakistan, we had humble beginnings in the early fifties, and later we established our office in 1973. Our work here has focused on three key thematic areas.

One, we have been largely known for our humanitarian response, mostly during and after natural disasters. In addition to that, we have been responding to the IDPs’ crises, as well as a number of localised disasters.

Two, we have provided capacity-building support to what are now many large Pakistani NGOs and local civil-society organisations to better respond to the needs of the common citizenry. We also provide a lot of technical and financial support to both federal and provincial government line ministries in areas of agriculture, disaster management, women and child right issues and human rights. We also have a close relationship with a number of public universities, where we use their academia and student population to undertake research to provide localised solutions to problems that plague the country.

The third area is basic services, where our focus is rights-based. Initially, we were directly involved in projects like establishing hand pumps or providing assistance to basic health units. Over time, we moved to working directly with local partners, so we were able to expand our footprint. From Turbat to Gilgit, we have expanded our reach thanks to local partners.

We are very pleased to hear that the government has taken the United Nations Sustainability Development Goals (SDGs) as part of their own development criteria. Whichever thematic area we address, all of them are related to one or two SDGs. So we work within the framework of the SDGs and by extension, the development framework of the government.

 BRR: Third sector organizations are there to fill in the service-delivery gaps left by the public sector. Oxfam has been here for a long time. Besides, you also have a long experience in the development sector. Have those service-delivery gaps in Pakistan narrowed or worsened over the years?

MQ: It’s a good question. If you look at it from an absolutist perspective, then I’d say the gap has reduced. Pakistan has been supported for a number of years by both national and international organisations in addressing many of the basic services. If you set the benchmark at 1947, a large number of schools, universities, health units, hospitals, infrastructure, and markets have been established with international assistance as well as Pakistani philanthropy.

Have we reached the full spectrum? No! We still have significant gaps. One of the obstacles continues to be the phenomenal population growth in the country. Massive urbanization is taking place and cities cannot tackle the substantial influx of people.

In that context, ‘water and sanitation’ is a key area needing attention. Access to clean drinking water is a major challenge in this country. Less than ten percent of population has access to good sanitation across the country. This has a direct impact on the population’s health and well-being. A concerted effort needs to look at and quickly address this issue, both in urban centers, and in rural areas.

BRR: You mentioned that significant gaps exist in terms of improving service delivery. Can those gaps be plugged if the Pakistani state, which has long embraced INGOs, continued to give confusing signals on the future of INGOs in Pakistan?

MQ: The role of INGOs, and the civil society, in most cases, is to complement the work of the government. Obviously, the government cannot do everything. And the government can be questioned by the citizens of Pakistan if their projects are not pro-poor or deviate from their policies. Civil society does play a positive role so long as it is seen that way. If they start criticizing the government just for the sake of criticism, then it’s counterproductive. That’s not going to get them very far.

As for the current state of affairs, INGOs have been in an open and conducive relationship with the government for many years. We, ourselves, continue to have a positive relationship with the government. What is happening now, as is happening elsewhere, is that rules and regulations that already existed are now being enforced. This enforcement of rules is starting to make some people uncomfortable.  But only those who have something to hide are getting uncomfortable.

We, at Oxfam, have had our MOU cleared from the very beginning. We have a number of partnership agreements and close collaboration with government line ministries, public universities and Pakistani think tanks. And that is the way forward. Working independently is not going to get you forward in terms of having wider scale and access or creating a lasting impact.

 BRR: Let’s pivot to inequality. Globally, Oxfam has been leading the charge against inequality. How do you see inequality in Pakistan? What kind of advocacy are you doing here?

MQ: I’d like to start from the fact that inequality is a global issue. The very fact that 42 people – and they all happen to be men – have the accumulated wealth of close to four billion people shows that something is clearly wrong. We are not against merit-based wealth. But the point is these 42 people have accumulated wealth through policies, procedures and protocols that were designed to protect their wealth.

The key point is that these are all individuals – they don’t represent a nation state, government or a political party. As a result, they ensure that the global economic policies protect their wealth. Look at tax havens that have been created in various countries to maximize their profits. At the same time, they provide inadequate wages to their workers.

Coming to Pakistan, we are fortunate enough that even in our constitution it is clearly articulated that people need to live in a dignified way and they need to be paid as per the level of effort. Our labour laws clearly indicate that overtime needs to be paid in double the normal wage. Child-labour is a no-no in Pakistan. The laws are all there, at both provincial and federal levels.

The issue is the lack of proper implementation of those laws. Violations go by unpunished in terms of adequate wages, safe working environment, unionizing, etc. Result is that yes, people have a job, but they are living in poverty. People are not allowed to establish a union to collectively argue for their rights.

BRR: What is the scale of inequality in Pakistan, in your view?

MQ: One of the issues is that we do lack data in Pakistan on inequality. We mostly have secondary or tertiary information. But I will say, on record, there has been a reduction in poverty; however, there has been an increase in inequality. The rich have become richer, at the expense of those at the bottom.

BRR: Which inequality indicator are you referring to?

MQ: The Gini coefficient for Pakistan has increased in recent years, unfortunately. I don’t think anyone will deny there is inequality in the country. For instance, women are paid less for the same amount of work that a man does. There are numerous other instances that clearly indicate that the ‘haves’ are getting more and the ‘have-nots’ are getting less. But it would be beneficial to have a comprehensive study done to indicate what the scale of inequality is.

 BRR: Between adjusting fiscal policy (taxing the rich more and spending more on social sector) and giving the workers their rights, which approach is more conducive to tackling inequality in Pakistan?

MQ: Oxfam in Pakistan is working on the taxation issue. We feel that we need to increase the tax base, particularly the direct taxation, as massive tax evasion is happening. There are a lot of indirect taxes, which hurt the poor. Nations cannot develop on the basis of indirect taxes. The people that are being currently directly taxed are mostly the salaried individuals.

First and foremost, it is the moral duty of every tax-eligible Pakistani citizen to pay his or her taxes according to their actual level of income. Then the government will have that additional resource to improve its spending on various basic services and infrastructure projects. Then, policies and interventions should be designed that are pro-poor.

So those are the two main areas. But the first step is to pay the due taxes. We cannot continue to be dependent on the vicious cycle of external assistance. Then, our elite and the private sector need to provide the right level of wage to their workers and provide the right level of services for their workers to live a dignified life.

BRR: But governments in Pakistan – this one, many in the past, and likely the next ones, too – don’t have an incentive to shake up the status quo in favour of an equitable taxation and fair redistribution regimes. How can one build a constituency for change?

MQ: We have quite a vibrant population which is aware thanks to the access to both traditional media and social media. People know what their issues are. They can ask their legislators why they are not talking about inequality and why are they advocating business investments at the expense of workers’ rights. Political parties must make inequality part of their election manifestos. Across each and every sector, a debate on inequality should take place. If initiatives like CPEC, which can benefit Pakistan, don’t give minimum wage to their workers, it will create more inequality.

Gradually, these things can start to be addressed. Many years ago, women’s rights weren’t a part of political manifestos. But through advocacy and mobilization of civil society, many political parties now have women legislators and women wings. They still have a long way to go. Nevertheless, they have shown improvement. Similarly, people can start demanding the political elite some answers to tackle inequality. That is our right, as Pakistani citizens, to demand answers on basic rights.

BRR: But foreign investment will move where it finds lower costs, e.g. labour wages. Developing countries want to create more jobs, so they end up making it easier for employers to fire people. It’s a race to the bottom. Can developing countries ever come together to safeguard workers’ rights?

MQ: Yes, they have to come together as they cannot succeed in isolation. But the problem is that the ruling elite benefit from the status quo. So the solution, the movement, has to come from the ordinary people.